FreThink - Latest Comments

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Dale — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 13:08:34 -0000

How did that McCain Palin thing work out for you anyway?

Re: The Left’s Limbaugh

vjack — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:44:42 -0000

rAmen! Once in awhile, I find Olbermann's over-the-top antics worthwhile but most of the time I feel like I'm watching less real news and more commentary on Fox "News."

Re: The Left’s Limbaugh

The Vicar — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:17:48 -0000

I find TV personalities annoying, and here's my practical suggestion for dealing with the problem: if you don't like the guy, don't watch him. Turn the TV off. Go read a book, or bake cookies, or write a blog entry. Then he won't bother you a bit. Seriously, even when some media nitwit is in the headlines to the point where you can't avoid them, it makes them much less annoying if you just don't watch (or listen) to them.

As for Olbermann being some sort of mirror of Limbaugh: I don't watch either one so I can't say for sure, but judging by Limbaugh's history, I'd say it's not warranted until at least most of the following have happened:
1) Olbermann is busted for doing drugs, then buys his way out of prosecution
2) Olbermann defends preemptive war on right-wing countries
3) Olbermann starts making claims which prove to be false, is caught on them, and then repeats them anyway
4) Olbermann claims to be the equivalent of PBS
5) Olbermann gives direction to a national political party, and they not only largely take his direction but those who disagree in public end up having to apologize to him

For that matter, I don't think you can claim the left has a Limbaugh in this country, because the left and right are not mirrors. There's no real leftist political party these days -- there's the right-to-far-right Republicans, and the center-to-right Democrats, and between them they own (and are owned by) the media. Limbaugh himself has admitted in public that the idea of the "left-wing media" was a lie to rouse the right-wing rabble and to force media outlets to grant him (and his fellow-travelers) airtime, and it's not really fair to compare Olbermann, who is a lone dissenting voice, to Limbaugh in his echo chamber.

Re: Swedish government - it’s illegal for schools to teach religious doctrine as if it were true.

Patrick — Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:32:22 -0000

Blackbird,

To function, logic must presuppose its own validity. There is no logical ground for that presupposition. And for "presuppose" in that first sentence, one may very well read "requires unsubstantiated faith in".

But, that aside, there is quite a lot of sound philosophical reasoning suggesting that our ordinary everyday perceptions are at least illusory in some important ways.

All in all, I think it's a good idea to encourage caution in teaching notions as though they are inviolable truths. But then we must take that principle to heart. Even logic is unsubstantiated in the essence of things, and to miss that by an inch is to miss it by a mile.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Steph — Mon, 15 Jun 2009 12:28:11 -0000

Wow...for an article about the dangers of anti-intellectualism, that second statement was very un-intellectual and extremely uninformed. I think understanding that one is ignorant is far better than pretending that one knows things that he clearly knows nothing about.
In fact, followers of religious faiths are just like the rest of America: some are book smart, some aren't. Those who rise to the places of preachers and theological teachers, etc. (or even students who just want to further their education and understand their faith better), undergo rigorous work in college and seminary. Being one of those people, I know first-hand what kind of an education they actually get. Yes, we study our Bible. We revert to elementary school as we re-learn how to properly diagram sentences, read things in context, understand syllogisms...After all, it takes more than a pre-formed bias to know what the text actually says. We also study history. History through the eyes of the Church, and history through secular eyes. We study literature. Again, secular and sacred. Assuming one goes to a Bible-teaching institution, what is the point of teaching anything other than the Bible or spiritual things? Ah yes, because we live in the world. We need to be learning what the world is learning. We will get no where if we are lightyears behind the education of secular institutions. We will not get the same jobs, we will be looked down on for our ignorance, and we just won't be of any use. Admittedly, there are a select few in the faith (who unfortunately tend to be louder than the rest of us) who do reject any education. That is just irresponsible, and that is all that needs to be said. Again, what is taught in private schools/seminaries is the same as that which is taught in secular schools. We learn math, English, science, music, art, and so much more all through 1) the lens of Scripture and 2) the lens of our world.
So as for contestant #2's opinion on these matters, I would like to say again how disappointed I am at his assertions. "Religion is an obvious one, of course, since being intelligent and learning makes one less likely to accept arguments from authority, and to question unproven assertions." I would just like to know what Christian he talked to and got this bull from. No one I know, for sure. Sounds like a pre-conceived notion that he hasn't bothered to check the facts on to see that this mindset simply does not exist in today's Christian view.
As to the subject matter, I couldn't agree more. If there is anyone who has such anti-intellectual opinions, I hope that he/she is not in a place of power. Education brings us farther and helps us judge more clearly the path that should be taken. I enjoyed reading these differing opinions, but I just ask that you be a little more responsible before posting on things which you know not about.

Re: Free Thought of the Day

craigs2 — Fri, 29 May 2009 03:15:37 -0000

Was a good read. I'll be back for more.

Re: Free Thought of the Day

craigs2 — Fri, 29 May 2009 00:58:43 -0000

Some good points raised in that post. Will be back to check for more.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Baldchemist — Mon, 11 May 2009 08:19:05 -0000

Intellectual is not like being Republican or Democrat. Christian, Muslim or Jew etc. Its about ideas art culture based on what is known and discussed. A love of the sciences , art, music, writing all the things that contribute to allowing us to live together. Not about finding the quickest way to demolish all who dont agree. Its about having an open mind.
Its not even about winning an argument but about knowing how to ask the pertinent questions, listening, seeing.
Not total destruction.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Baldchemist — Mon, 11 May 2009 08:14:24 -0000

Which is why common sense is now taking it away from you. Get used to China, India and the other countries having their time.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Baldchemist — Mon, 11 May 2009 08:11:56 -0000

The Right the Left. Where is that? Draw a circle and tell me whats left and whats right. That is politics. But keep politics and religion out of free thinking also known as intellect.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Baldchemist — Mon, 11 May 2009 07:44:57 -0000

Interestingly, your measures are really messed up today eh?
Here comes another mess bigger than the great depression.Thanks to unbridled greed and ignorance, no not ignorance but blatant stupidity of basic economics.
Ignorance is not knowing stupidy is knowing but carrying on anyway.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Baldchemist — Mon, 11 May 2009 06:46:25 -0000

Who´s morality are we talking about here? Not those of unseen Gods and the ignorant I hope. Those who hold Moral superiority as you describe it are those running countries backed by unseen Gods.And look at the unfettered mess it has left.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Baldchemist — Mon, 11 May 2009 06:42:47 -0000

The United states picks its adversaries very well. Small nations with no ability to fight back. Name one war that the US entered against a nation with as much political and weaponry!
Never went to war with the Russians when the rounds for doing so were far more serious than the efforts in Iraque , Vietnam, Korea.

America handles business that makes you proud. HUh delusions of grandeur, megalomania, paranoia, narcssissm and mass ignorance more like. Actions like Bush are desperate because there are no ideas of how to solve problems. The one who raises the fist first is the one without ideas.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Baldchemist — Mon, 11 May 2009 06:33:33 -0000

Thank you for a brilliant observation. I value and cherish the intellectual as you so succinctly described it. Problem being that most dont even aspire to comfortable mediocrity.
I fear for mankind when art, culture, the sciences and literature are seen as elitist. We now have a culture of would be sportsmen and women. Nothing wrong with sports but at the cost of thought and a the need for knowledge that benefits all rather than the chosen team.
Politics and religion plays to the ignorance as you so correctly put it. Thats how its been for thousands of years. Its a form of control.
Thanks again.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Semuta — Mon, 11 May 2009 06:31:40 -0000

Oh, gee. Thanks.
So apparently, because I'm 17, and as such, haven't finished high school, I haven't anything relevant to say.
Well, I'm glad you're moderating this site with such fairness.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Semuta — Mon, 11 May 2009 06:26:56 -0000

"The peace movement is not an intellectual exercise. It is a vehicle for those who seek moral superiority."
So, you're saying moral improvement is not a thing to aspire to?

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Semuta — Mon, 11 May 2009 05:56:08 -0000

Uh-oh. Someone used the Magic Word!
Socialism! That's bad because the bad people used it! Mister President Man told me so (more than a decade ago).
Seriously, man. At least TRY to avoid being spoon-fed overused propaganda.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Semuta — Mon, 11 May 2009 05:42:27 -0000

Oh, right. Some of us are supposed to remember things we heard about, and barely even understood, at age eight.
I'm so sorry. I am so, so sorry.

Re: Swedish government - it’s illegal for schools to teach religious doctrine as if it were true.

Singularity — Fri, 08 May 2009 15:47:43 -0000

Great news!

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Diver — Fri, 08 May 2009 12:09:39 -0000

I am so relieved to know there are others out there who feel the same.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

martin stebbing — Thu, 07 May 2009 22:59:50 -0000

If you want to have a good chuckle and also see one possible result of the right wing hatred of intellectualism (is intellectualism speaking with a full mind rather than just a full mouth?) check out the movie "Idiocracy"; It pretty much sums up what'll happen to humanity if "The Dumb Trend' continues.

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Phil E. Drifter — Thu, 07 May 2009 11:18:51 -0000

You do yourself a great disservice by grouping those who believe in flying saucers with those who believe in evolution; they're not mutually exclusive, I graduated high school 73rd out of 435 students in my class without even trying, while playing tenor sax for my first 3 years, and being involved on stage crew for all 4, culminating with the position of Stage Manager my senior year until I graduated. Getting back to the topic...

Of course I believe in evolution, without a doubt. I also, without a doubt, believe in 'flying saucers,' or, more correctly, extraterrestrial life. Without a doubt we are not alone in the universe. Does that qualify me for your 'stupid americans' group?

I'm not even going to read past the 2nd paragraph of your argument, it looks like YOU need to go back to grade school to learn how to write coherent papers.

Re: Swedish government - it’s illegal for schools to teach religious doctrine as if it were true.

jen brister — Tue, 05 May 2009 21:26:00 -0000

Beautiful!

Re: Filtering reality

talkingmonkey53 — Tue, 05 May 2009 05:43:37 -0000

a similar struggle here. During the course of the past 15+ years or so I've been drawn in some unexpected directions. Each of the two polar arguments bears enough that I begin to think of the possibility that there is truth on BOTH sides, and that any perception that one excludes the other simply means that that some evidence has been overlooked. This argument carries with it the illusion that both sides are already complete enough. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Good Post!

Re: Anti-Intellectualism Is Destroying America

Steve — Sun, 03 May 2009 00:54:05 -0000

Some people saw it coming a long time ago. See "The Marching Morons" by C. M. Kornbluth. It was originally published in the April 1951 Galaxy Magazine. Of course, Kornbluth was far from the first. The idea of keeping the Mob content in its ignorance is at very least as old as the Roman Empire.